So in other words 2001 and Blade Runner don't qualify as decent SF?

I put this in the "get a life" category. If seeing a name of a
product on the back of a wall "consumes the great potential of the
series," if that's all the person can see...I'm sorry, but that's that
person's problem, not mine.

B5 takes place in the real universe, as much as we can make it such.
We use language and cultural references that go back hundreds of years.
One element was for a story point, the other was nominally a gag...deal
with it. That's part of our culture too.

Basically, for somebody to shitcan an entire series because he
didn't like a sign he saw in the back of a room...hey, stop watching.

You're right; "Star Trek does not do this." Which is as much
incentive as anything else to DO it.

Yessir...we've certainly seen how Blade Runner and 2001 and the
Terminator and Alien Nation and Enemy Mine have been ruined for all time
by such things.

And let me add one other thing: we didn't make a dime off that stuff,
no one paid Babylonian Productions to include it. How ANYONE can turn to
me and say with a straight face that this kind of commercialism (done
twice in one year) will ruin B5 and use STAR TREK -- STAR frigging TREK,
the single most merchandised, licensed property in the history of
television -- as an example of SF purity is out of his mind. It was STAR
TREK, as noted in Engel's book, and Shatner's as well I believe, that
stuck an IDIC symbol in in order to merchandise it; it's STAR TREK that
changed Federation costumes between TNG and DS9 specifically so they would
have another whole set of costumes to merchandise.

On our behalf, we have resisted over-licensing, doing only a little,
if we can exert quality control. I have deliberately fought against this
show becoming a "franchise."

We have *nothing* to apologize for. And I suggest to this person,
as he sits wearing his Star Trek uniform, and his Star Trek communicator
pin and his Star Trek phaser, and his Star Trek PJs, beside his collection
of Star Trek pins, shirts, iron-ons, glow-in-the-dark Kirks and Spocks,
Enterprise models, books and cutouts...as they say in the bible, take the
log out of your own eye before you try to remove the splinter from your
neighbor's eye. To hold up Star Trek: The Franchise as the model of
untouched non-commercial purity is the most laughable thing I have heard
in *years*.

"B5 has brought the whole ediface crashing down by the blatant
inclusion of advertising for commercial products."

What the hell do you think Star Trek *IS*? (Leaving aside the story
aspects for the moment, as he does for us.) All the stuff you see on ST
is for SALE. Phasers, costumes, enterprises, pointy ears...they are ALL
"commercial products." Which makes the show, on one level, one MASSIVE
advertisement.

Look...I got nothing against ST, or against ST licensing it's brains
out. I think it's terrific. But for somebody, ANYbody, to use ST in
this way as wonderful and free of commercial considerations, and hit US
in this regard...give me a break.

jms