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 Message
    From: jmsatb5@aol.com
 Subject: from jms: too damned much stuff
      To: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated  
    Date: 4/9/2005 9:11:29 AM  

Message 1 in thread 

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Okay. That's it. I give up.

Over the last few days, I've been trying to sort through the tons of
boxes that have for the most part been sitting in storage for the last
several years to try and find space for all this stuff, and there just
isn't any. The floors are wall-to-wall with boxes, crates, palletes,
you name it, the detritus of decades of making shows and writing comics
and being a pack-rack. It has literally grown to overflow two rental
storage facilities.

I have reached the point best expressed by Oscar Wilde's last words:
"Either that wallpaper goes, or I do."

There's just no room, and I'm going insane.

So I'm going to have a yard sale.

Now, understand, the majority of this stuff will never leaving my
hands, and for those I have set aside places here at the house...the
statue of the B5 station that sat for five years on the desk of every
commanding officer on B5...the actual prop Book of G'Kar...a number of
props and bits of memorabilia that have honored places here.

But a lot of the rest is going to go out the door, because either that
wallpaper goes, or...well, you get the idea.

It's going to be kind of a JMS retrospective in some ways, because as I
said, this stuff covers decades...from memorabilia and storyboards for
the Ghostbusters, He-Man and Captain Power series, original scripts
from Twilight Zone and Murder, She Wrote...but the bulk of it is B5
stuff.

There are the actual script books I used during production, into which
I shoved the script I was working on, the breakdowns, shooting
schedules, any storyboards that were needed...the whole thing, in one
book per episode, some of which still have my original notations.

There are episodic dailies tapes, with takes and bits not previously
seen anywhere, posters, publicity material, a ton of stuff.

Props from the show, from my personal collection, where I have doubles
or just no place for them anymore.

(One of the things I'm letting go traces back to the pilot. Not sure
if the show would ever actually go, I paid the wardrobe department to
make me a B5 captain's uniform. I know, I know, I'm the ultimate geek,
but there you are. Suffice to say given the passage of time and
calories, there's no way on god's green earth that that uniform is ever
going to fit. Not that I ever wore it past the initial fitting, but
for sure it ain't gonna happen now. So that's on its way out.)

Another prime item is going to be one of two huge original art pieces
that the late Peter Ledger did for me to help sell B5 itself, big,
elaborate paintings, signed by Peter. The one I won't sell is the
first painting of the B5 station itself from the outside; the one I
just don't have room for is the very first visualization/painting of
the Garden area, with the core shuttle, folks floating around, and in
the bar, a fight breaking out between humans and aliens, with an early
version of Garibaldi in the thick of it.

There's caps, and a disco-style prototype of a B5 crew jacket, a few of
the original blue key B5 symbol t-shirts made up before we did the
pilot and given out at a couple of conventions, an assortment of
souvenirs and some truly, truly weird shit, some of which nobody's ever
heard of before, let alone seen.

I'm still holding on to about 75% of the stuff, but the other 25% has
got to go.

So starting sometime probably next week, the week of the 11th, and from
time to time over the next month or so, keep an eye on Ebay. (I'm
playing with the idea of doing this chronologically, from the earliest
stuff to the latter stuff, but I don't know if I'm disciplined enough
for that.) I likely won't put this stuff up every day, only when and
as I think of it. So you may have days pass with nothing, then a day
when four or five items go up. The Ebay user ID is babylon5auctions.
Once I've cleared out enough room to actually see the floor again, the
auctions will stop and that user ID will go away.

Let the games begin.

jms

(Message content copyright (c) 2005
by Synthetic Worlds, Ltd.
Permission to reprint specifically
denied to SFX Magazine)
    From: jmsatb5@aol.com
 Subject: Re: from jms: too damned much stuff
      To: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated  
    Date: 4/9/2005 4:39:39 PM  

Message 2 in thread 

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>JMS did say that he planned to have the
>Book of G'Quan for his own after the series, but I think that the book of G'Kar
>was bound by the end, too. If JMS is smart, he has both but he did probably
>mean the book of G'Quan. In fact, I'd automatically read G'Quan anyway.

Because the Book of G'Quan appears for the first time in "By Any Means
Necessary" Kathryn got that one as a gift, and I got the Book of G'Kar
which, someday, if there is a B5 feature, I may give as a gift to a
certain very tall Narn....
    From: jmsatb5@aol.com
 Subject: Re: from jms: too damned much stuff
      To: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated  
    Date: 4/9/2005 10:05:10 PM  

Message 3 in thread 

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>Please tell me that you will be willing to ship outside the US


As a courtesy to anyone who picks this stuff up, I'm going to be
sending everything out fed ex, to make sure it arrives safely (and only
charging like five bucks), so that means it can go internationally as
well.

jms
    From: jmsatb5@aol.com
 Subject: Re: from jms: too damned much stuff
      To: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated  
    Date: 4/9/2005 10:08:10 PM  

Message 4 in thread 

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>Nice to know you still have some plans for G'Kar!

Actually, I was thinking of Andreas personally.

>Now, help us out here: in what episode do we actually see a definitive copy
>of the Book of G'Kar? Meaning, is this something that G'Kar himself carried
>around, or was it just one of the many Books of G'Kar the Narns on the
>station were carrying?

It's the one he was actually writing in, the loose pages gathered into
a leather binder. That one ain't leaving my possession for a long,
long, very long time.

jms
    From: jmsatb5@aol.com
 Subject: Re: from jms: too damned much stuff
      To: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated  
    Date: 4/12/2005 10:00:27 PM  

Message 5 in thread 

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Okay, the first batch has gone up...I think some people's eyes are
gonna melt on one of these.

Just search for the name babylon5auctions to find the stuff. It's just
four for now, more to follow.

jms
    From: jmsatb5@aol.com
 Subject: Re: from jms: too damned much stuff
      To: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated  
    Date: 4/15/2005 9:03:12 PM  

Message 6 in thread 

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I was surprised that you haven't taken a picture of the
figurines side-by-side, even in their boxes.

They refused to be in the same shot together.

jms
    From: jmsatb5@aol.com
 Subject: Re: from jms: too damned much stuff
      To: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated  
    Date: 4/20/2005 1:32:47 AM  

Message 7 in thread 

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A follow-up on this subject....

Tomorrow, the Seeing Double auctions start at 1:00 p.m. PST

By "seeing double" I mean that I have two of these, and there's no
reason for me to hold on to both, so I'm putting one of them up in each
of these three auctions.

The first two are doubles of my complete He-Man and She-Ra production
archives, NOT the scripts, but a truckload of other stuff.
Storyboards, art, memos, series bibles, publicity stuff, you name it.

The third one...is the one that I debated about for a long time, but I
want this whole thing to be kind of special, to put something that I
would want to have as a fan, not just to clear out stuff from the
garage. Something...special.

Because that's almost half the fun...knowing these things are going to
get good homes, appreciated and shown off.

So what's item number three?

Nothing less than one of the two Medals from the Battle of the Line
seen in Sinclair's quarters in the pilot. Both were used on screen,
interchangeably. I'm keeping one, and letting the other one go to a
fan who can appreciate it.

Yep. THAT medal.

The one that changed everything for the Babylon 5 storyline.

jms

(Message content copyright (c) 2005
by Synthetic Worlds, Ltd.
Permission to reprint specifically
denied to SFX Magazine)
    From: jmsatb5@aol.com
 Subject: Re: from jms: too damned much stuff
      To: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated  
    Date: 4/23/2005 9:07:12 PM  

Message 8 in thread 

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Because there are a lot of folks who've said that the items currently
on ebay are kind of beyond their reach, I just put up a dutch auction
for multiples of the "V" script that I've never let anyone see before,
all autographed, at a ceiling of $200 (this is a FOUR HOUR miniseries,
remember), so it can't go any higher, and anybody who wants something
special can have one. I'll run this for two auction cycles and that's
it, so those who get 'em will have something that won't be available
again from me.

jms
    From: jmsatb5@aol.com
 Subject: Re: from jms: too damned much stuff
      To: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated  
    Date: 5/3/2005 3:18:09 PM  

Message 9 in thread 

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Just FYI...I'm only making the V scripts available for the next two
days, and then they're going to be gone. No other copies will be made,
and if any pirated copies show up later, I won't sign them in order to
keep faith with the folks who got them now. So this is the last chance
on this one.

The next and possibly last phase of the cool stuff goes up in a few
days.

jms
    From: jmsatb5@aol.com
 Subject: Re: from jms: too damned much stuff
      To: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated  
    Date: 5/8/2005 1:54:40 AM  

Message 10 in thread 

View this message only
 


BTW, to anyone looking on, somebody hijacked the Medal of the Line
auction information and is holding a fraudulent Ebay auction for this,
even using my exact copy and photos. If there's anybody in law
enforcement looking on, or anybody with Ebay, this person needs to be
nailed.

jms
    From: jmsatb5@aol.com
 Subject: Re: from jms: too damned much stuff
      To: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated  
    Date: 5/13/2005 8:42:04 PM  

Message 11 in thread 

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I'm sorry, Paul, but you're just not making any sense, on any
conceivable level.

First, a general note, which is that there's a peculiarly British thing
that flares into existence whenever somebody is seen making any kind of
money from something. A work of art is fine and good as long as nobody
makes anything...the moment it becomes popular, well, then it's trash
or devalued. I've seen it again and again in the media there, so this
doesn't surprise me to hear it here. It's a class thing, I think.

I would also point out that WB didn't commission B5 for artistic
reasons...it did so because the studio thought they could make money
from it. And it has. Just the DVDs alone have grossed over half a
billion dollars. Of which, incidentally, I have seen not one penny.
Due to the nature of my contract, on my first series, I will never see
a dime in profit off B5. Ever.

That clean enough for your approval, Paul?

Now, to more specifics.

Paul Harper wrote:
> On Fri, 13 May 2005 23:18:21 +0000 (UTC), Oron Port
> <zoraxe22@netscape.net> wrote:
>
> >If I had lots of money, and by lots I mean LOTS(!), that couple of
10
> >thousand dollars out of my back pocket won't change anything for me,
I
> >would have bought all those items. If you have the money, why not?
>
> Because it devalues it, that's why.
>

Bullshit.

The show is the show is the show. This is stuff from my personal
collection.

And you know what, Paul? When it comes to what I do with my personal
life, and what I own personally...you don't get a vote. You don't get
to approve or disapprove.

> If any schmuck with a wallet full of dosh can, irrespective of their
> feelings for the show, buy into a piece of (what we probably all feel
> is) history, then where's the value - intrinsic, artistic or
> otherwise? Because it all boils down to cash. Something stupid, and
in
> the final analysis valueless.
>

More patent bullshit.

Look...in my collection I have two prize artifacts. One is a Conklin
fountain pen once owned by Mark Twain. The other is a copy of a Rod
Serling collection of short stories signed by Rod to, ironically, a
Joe. You don't want to *know* what I paid for those. Why was I
willing to pay that? Because of the provenance, because of who had
owned them, whose hands had touched them. That doesn't devalue Twain's
work, or Serling's work, it has to do with provenance.

And your argument that because something brings value it therefore has
no value or lesser value is one of the more breathtakingly vapid things
I've read in years. By that same logic, if someone pays lots for a
Picasso painting, it therefore has no value.

Again, it's that British class system thing rearing its annoying head.

> >Babylon 5 is dear to my heart, and to have that painting, for
> >instance, to wake up and look at every morning would have been
> >wonderful.
>
> Agreed absolutely.
>
> >But I am just a student with no job and a cheap bastard, who can't
> >even spare the 300 for the B5 dvds, so I can't afford any of these
> >items at those prices.
>
> Yes. My point exactly. Money is NOT might. Slinging cash at something
> that should [and did (imho)] have a higher artistic value cheapens
and
> devalues the whole enterprise.
>

So artists should suffer and be paid nothing so that their value
remains? You're not making any sense. Even for a Brit.

> How much better might it have been to either produce reasonable
> quality facsimiles of the original, under licence, so everyone can
> have a bite at the apple, then put the originals in a showcase
> somewhere so those that care about such things can view them?
>
> Sorry to the "Fans of Joe", but I really would have preferred this
> garage sale not take place. It has cheapened all of B5. It has, in
> every sense of the word, turned it into a marketing opportunity,
which
> is what Trek became several decades ago.
>

This is where the illogic of your argument takes flight into realms
hitherto undreamt of.

You're saying that in orderf to avoid something becoming a marketing
opportunity, one should mass produce the item in question, in lesser
form, removing therefore the benefit of provenance...and sell lots and
lots of copies.

See, to me, THAT is marketing, THAT is merchandising.

In most cases, these are one-offs that were used in actual production.
A copy wouldn't be the same thing, it's NOT the same thing...again,
it's the question of provenance.

> I personally take offence at that. I value B5 at considerably more
> than a throw-away eBay sale. B5 is not some deep-space franchise to
be
> profitted from.

Except that WB profits from it every day. The only person really who
doesn't profit from it is me. But that's okay by you, apparently.
Artists should make nothing, or they're sellouts.

Bullshit, Paul. Utter tripe. And by the way...you should really take
a good look at your sig next time before you post something like this.

jms

> --
> Never have so many jumped-up fanboys done so little, with so much,
for so long."
    From: jmsatb5@aol.com
 Subject: Re: from jms: too damned much stuff
      To: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated  
    Date: 5/14/2005 4:48:38 PM  

Message 12 in thread 

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Paul Harper wrote:
> On Sat, 14 May 2005 21:56:05 +0000 (UTC), jmsatb5@aol.com wrote:
>
> >
> >Ali Hopkins wrote:
> >> <jmsatb5@aol.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1116042082.156643.48310@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> You *had* a lot of fans over here. I suspect you may have just
> >alienated and
> >> lost a fair few, and I include myself in that.
> >>
> >Are you saying the class system/attitude doesn't exist?
>
> It exists far less here than there. I have been to New York and
> witnessed the appalling inequalities there first hand. It's a
> full-blown caste system that makes the Indian system pale to
> insignificance.
>

Peter, we have to be able to agree on language, or we can't have a
conversation. You are crossing the lines on two different discussions:
racial prejudice and a class system, which tends to operate within a
homogeneous culture or ethnic group. And the British system is riddled
with this kind of class-ist influence...from the schools attended, the
regions lived in, the grammar, the school tie....

I mean, c'mon...a culture where one's class can be defined instantly by
whether the person greeting you says "hello" "hullo" or "hallo" isn't
class oriented?

> >Or that it was rude of me to point it out?
>
> "You're not making sense. Even for a Brit" has bugger-all to do with
> any so-called class system and everything to do with prejudice.
>

Right, this is why the only place I've ever considered living in
outside the States is Great Britain. I've been painfully up-front
about the American foibles and blindnesses and prejudices, so this
isn't anything of the kind.

> And yes, I would go so far as to say racial prejudice.
>
> >Because the former has been chronicled for decades by writers and
> >social scientists and commentators...many of them also British, by
the
> >by.
>
> There goes the Victorian imagery again. We have electricity these
> days, you know.
>
> Paul.
>
> --
> . A .sig is all well and good, but it's no substitute for a
personality
> . JMS: "SFX is a fairly useless publication on just about every
imaginable front.
> Never have so many jumped-up fanboys done so little, with so much,
for so long."
> . EMail: Unless invited to, don't. Your message is likely to be
automatically deleted.
    From: jmsatb5@aol.com
 Subject: Re: from jms: too damned much stuff
      To: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated  
    Date: 5/14/2005 7:14:37 PM  

Message 13 in thread 

View this message only
 


And by the way...while I'm at it....

For me, the very definition of hypocrisy comes into play when someone
demands of others a level of perfection they do not require of
themselves.

If you're going to twig me as noted below --


Paul Harper wrote:
> "You're not making sense. Even for a Brit" has bugger-all to do with
> any so-called class system and everything to do with prejudice.

-- then you have to be able to take the position that *you* don't do
this sort of thing, because if you do, then you do not have the moral
high ground or authority with which to complain.

Just a few minutes of googling turned up the very same kind of
prejudicial comments you've made about Americans...only far, far worse
than anything I said.

In addition to agreeing that Americans are "really stupid," and
offering that all Americans are "revisionist historians," you've said:

"ALL Americans worship flags of traitor ancestors - from a historical
English perspective."

Of the election, you said "How 100 million Americans can be so dumb as
to elect a twat like him in the first place, let alone twice in a row
is so far beyond my
understanding as to be in the next galaxy. Rampant self-interest. I
guess it's not too difficult to understand it really, huh?"

"Europeans have a much better and wider view of the world." Also a
very sweeping statement about an entire population.

And my favorite exchange from you:

">That makes americans 20% smarter than 1 billion fucking moron muslims
>around the fucking moron muslim world, fucking rag head cunts.

But apparently considerably less literate."

So you have dismissed and dissed Americans as dumb, self-interested,
illiterate, worshipping flags of traitor ancestors, agreed that we are
"really stupid"...and you have the *gall* to come here and give me a
hard time about saying Britain has a rampant class system?

The citations follow.

One hopes your apology would also follow.

jms


From: Paul Harper <p...@harper.net>
Newsgroups:
alt.france,uk.politics.misc,alt.politics.england.misc,talk.politics.mideast,alt.politics.british,alt.fan.michael-moore,soc.veterans,houston.general
Subject: Re: ~ MOST AMERICANS NOT TOO SWIFT ~
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 18:36:00 +0000
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <qvtbr058ctl0gdmhljcqh7t3tkbv2gtpkh@4ax.com>
References: <1102375493.866c101bb6b4a9b7d5075f0e39c43a36@teranews>
<STctd.326818$9b.209772@edtnps84> <41B56C4B.8050505@mail.com>
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On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 00:39:39 -0800, David Platt <p...@mail.com>
wrote:

>What percentage of muslims believe all the utter bullshit peddled
>in their fucking moron religion, 100 fucking percent.
>That makes americans 20% smarter than 1 billion fucking moron muslims
>around the fucking moron muslim world, fucking rag head cunts.

But apparently considerably less literate.

Paul.


From: Paul Harper <p...@harper.net>
Newsgroups:
alt.france,uk.politics.misc,alt.politics.england.misc,talk.politics.mideast,alt.politics.british,alt.fan.michael-moore,soc.veterans,houston.general
Subject: Re: ~ MOST AMERICANS NOT TOO SWIFT ~
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 06:01:16 +0000
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <t26dr09q8nik7kjbjq8cc6osn9itnbsta0@4ax.com>
References: <1102375493.866c101bb6b4a9b7d5075f0e39c43a36@teranews>
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On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 16:57:06 -0800, David Platt <p...@mail.com>
wrote:

>No they are called "lift up flaps" and are attached to pop
>up picture bokos that you and your remedial class use.

I bow to your superior knowledge on the matter. (Though it can't be
*that* superior if you're living "over there" and not over here...)

Paul (laughing at the latter-day Founding Father who presumably
couldn't cope with the competition over here so went over there where
it's a lot easier...)


From: Paul Harper <p...@harper.net>
Newsgroups:
alt.religion.christian.baptist,soc.culture.israel,tx.politics,alt.politics,alt.fan.michael-moore
Subject: Re: ~ What do Terry Schiavo & George Bush have in common? ~
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 13:04:28 +0100
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On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 12:11:10 +0100, "Anthony"
<anthonyni...@eircom.net> wrote:

>
>"Paul Harper" <p...@harper.net> wrote in message
>news:4bpb411gbcia4fe1uauu8m9icmq8mcsh09@4ax.com...
>> On 26 Mar 2005 12:24:19 -0800, "~ BUSH's ASS GERBIL STRIKES BACK !
~"
>> <bushs_ass_ger...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >40% of Americans want them to live.
>>
>> Well there's a significant difference here, for a start.
>>
>> Most Brits want Ms. Schiavo to be able to die in a dignified way,
free
>> from the stupidity of those nannying idiots who think they know best
>> (a position thankfully held up by the courts so far, even if the
>> politicos don't have the balls to carry it). This must rank as the
>> first sensible decision the Florida Court has made in many years...
>
>As Bush says, it's better to "err on the side of life." (Too bad he
didn't
>take the same view when he ordered the invasion of Iraq... but anyway)

No way of proving it, of course, but I'd bet that for most of the last
decade and a half, that poor woman has been wishing fervently to die.

It is cruelty in the extreme to keep her in her vegetative state with
no hope whatsoever (beyond bead-rattling mystics chanting
incantations, or whatever passes for religion over there in the US) of
recovery.

She, Nature and "God" have decided she's not to live. It's only the
arrogance of the politicos and, in the past, the medics and her
misguided family that decided otherwise. Arrogant pricks.

>> Equally, most Brits don't give a flying fuck whether Bush lives or
>> dies because he's cost us a fortune in cash and (more importantly)
our
>> fighting forces' lives. If someone shot Bush tomorrow, I doubt many
on
>> this side of the Atlantic would give much of a toss. (If they could
>> manage to take out Cheney as well, there'd be street parties all the
>> way through the Channel Tunnel).
>
>Yes, it's safe to say everyone would go out for a few celebratory
drinks if
>Bush kicked the bucket!
>But, we all know Bush isn't running the show. That privilege goes to
Cheney,
>Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz.

And in such a simple way too:

"George, everything's running just fine, why don't you take a month or
two and have a nice holiday in Crawford".

(Packing suitcase) "You sure, guys? Gee, that's good of you"

How 100 million Americans can be so dumb as to elect a twat like him
in the first place, let alone twice in a row is so far beyond my
understanding as to be in the next galaxy.

Rampant self-interest.

I guess it's not too difficult to understand it really, huh?

Paul.


From: Paul Harper <p...@harper.net>
Newsgroups:
alt.fan.michael-moore,alt.politics.republicans,soc.women,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: our thoughts about holocaust and bolshocaust
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 11:19:32 +0100
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On 10 Sep 2004 12:09:43 -0700, goyli...@hotmail.com (Goy Liath) wrote:

>Paul Harper <p...@harper.net> wrote in message
news:<c8u2k0tu54gd986557aom4kake4omul13d@4ax.com>...
>> On 10 Sep 2004 00:53:02 -0700, goyli...@hotmail.com (Goy Liath)
wrote:
>>
>> >we never seem to forget about the nazi genocide--holocaust--but
most
>> >americans know nothing of the horrors of communist
>> >classicide--bolshocaust.
>>
>> And choose to deliberately pretend that their own genocide of Native
>> Americans didn't happen.
>>
>> Revisionist historians - don't you love 'em?
>
>we deal with them. look at american AND european history books. the
>treatment of the indians is amply covered.
>yet, almost no one knows about the millions killed by lenin, stalin,
>mao, etc.

Maybe not in America. Europeans have a much better and wider view of
the world. I'd bet most Europeans are very aware of those as well.

I know I am.

Paul.


From: Paul Harper <p...@harper.net>
Newsgroups:
alt.fan.michael-moore,alt.politics.republicans,soc.women,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: our thoughts about holocaust and bolshocaust
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:51:43 +0100
Reply-To: p...@harper.net
Message-ID: <c8u2k0tu54gd986557aom4kake4omul13d@4ax.com>
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On 10 Sep 2004 00:53:02 -0700, goyli...@hotmail.com (Goy Liath) wrote:

>we never seem to forget about the nazi genocide--holocaust--but most
>americans know nothing of the horrors of communist
>classicide--bolshocaust.

And choose to deliberately pretend that their own genocide of Native
Americans didn't happen.

Revisionist historians - don't you love 'em?

Paul.


From: Paul Harper <p...@harper.net>
Newsgroups: alt.adjective
Subject: Re: Well , looks like we are all doomed then
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 08:20:54 +0000
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On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 07:25:49 -0000, "Dr Zoidberg"
<AlexNOOOOO!...@drzoidberg.co.uk> wrote:

> Americans really are stupid [1]
>
>[1] With the obvious exceptions

Agreed. It was one depressing night's television watching, I must
admit. Not 100% over yet, but all indications... etc. :-((((((((

Paul.


From: Paul Harper <p...@harper.net>
Newsgroups:
alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.republicans,alt.politics.democrats,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.michael-moore
Subject: Re: 1944 versus 2004
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 09:28:53 +0100
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On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 01:09:49 -0700, "Mr. N"
<seattledemocr...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>"Scott Marquardt" <wasREMOVEk...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:do4ay4owzoyu$.dlg@marquardts.org...
>
>> What does that have to do with whether they had the right to secede?
Are
>> you saying that war against sovereign secessionists is justified to
>> liberate people held in tyranny? ;-)
>
>They had no right to secede, and were not held in tyranny. They
turned
>their backs on the United States Constitution and committed treason.

There is no "right" to secession. It always has to be fought for
either physically or politically.

>Many southerners still worship the flag of their traitor ancestors.

ALL Americans worship flags of traitor ancestors - from a historical
English perspective.

You need to take a wider view on things like this.

Paul.
    From: jmsatb5@aol.com
 Subject: Re: from jms: too damned much stuff
      To: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated  
    Date: 5/15/2005 7:43:39 PM  

Message 14 in thread 

View this message only
 


Paul, if you're saying that you've never made those kinds of sweeping
generalizations or broad insults about peoples other than your own,
then you're just lying. It's not just a matter of putting words in
your mouth. Here's another, which couldn't be plainer, about how all
those Americans are fat:

"Other than all those Americans' expanding waistlines? They're walking
around like slo-mo nuclear explosions over there. Another few years
and they'll start going off... :-)"

In doing a simple google on your postings, one finds a nearly endless
supply of insulting, patronizing messages. What does this have to do
with the other?

First, for me, after spending fifteen years online extolling my love of
all things British, to have one line said primarily in humor as some
kind of condemnation of Britain, to have it taken as ANYTHING other
than a joke, has to be one of the most astonishing leaps in logic in
centuries.

Second, if one checks one's Bible, it suggests that people remove the
log from their own eye before attempting to remove the splinter from
someone else's. For you, having posted the kind of rants you have
posted directed to Americans and others with whom you disagree, to come
after me for one sentence in 15 years of posting constitutes a level of
hypocrisy that is dazzling to behold.

Third, and finally, the reason it matters...is that condemnation only
takes root when the person doing the condemnation holds to higher
standards of behavior sufficient to earn your respect and thus accept
the rebuke. When the person doing the criticizing behaves as you
have...well, neither can really follow logically, now can it?

jms



From: Paul Harper <p...@harper.net>
Newsgroups: uk.net.news.config
Subject: Re: RESULT : Create uk.net.providers.aaisp PASSES
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 16:11:24 +0000
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On 21 Nov 2003 15:50:17 GMT, Chris Croughton <c...@keristor.org>
wrote:

>On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 14:41:26 +0000, Dave J
> <requ...@freeuk.com> wrote:
>
>> In MsgID<pilprv8p739pipeclvkphb3g6jevr3l...@4ax.com> inside of
>> uk.net.news.config, 'anonymous.t...@groundforce.com' wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> uk.food+drink.BigMac as soon as possible..
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Will Burger King Whoppas be off topic?
>>>>>
>>>>> Wimp-ey!
>>>>
>>>>Building houses is on topic as well? <g>
>>>>
>>>>(IIRC, 'Wimpey' build houses and 'Wimpy' make burgers...)
>>>
>>>.... and both are inedible crap
>>
>> How 'bout creating uk.food+drink.burgers as a preliminary to
>> uk.food+drink.burgers(.toxic).BigMac ??
>
>Is there any evidence that they are indeed toxic?

Other than all those Americans' expanding waistlines? They're walking
around like slo-mo nuclear explosions over there. Another few years
and they'll start going off... :-)

Paul.
    From: jmsatb5@aol.com
 Subject: Re: from jms: too damned much stuff
      To: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated  
    Date: 5/20/2005 8:29:38 PM  

Message 15 in thread 

View this message only
 



>
> > A poor choice of words? With all due respect to JMS, I'd have to
say
> > yes. But JMS a racist? No bloody way.
>
> Probably best not to use racist terms then, huh?
>
> Paul.

Okay, Paul. Enough.

You have been running your mouth saying that I made a "racist" comment,
that I am using "racist" terms. That, therefore, I *am* a racist.

Perhaps you missed the meeting, but I am a Caucasian. Britain is still
considered for the most part, at least, an Anglo-Saxon nation.
Caucasian. We're members of the same freaking race.

Racism by EVERY DEFINITION that you care to apply, especially from the
dictionary, refers to different RACES. If there are no different races
involved, it's not racism. Argue all you want, words mean what they
mean, not what we WANT them to mean.

There may be cultural differences, but that's not a race.

So your terminology is offensive, insulting, wrong, libelous,
potentially damaging to my career and reputation, and defamatory...and
be advised that there are laws in England about such things. And from
this point on, I am copying my attorney on all our correspondence,
because you are actively attempting to attack my reputation and defame
me as a racist, and I do not take that lightly. If you think for just
a *second* that I will nok\t prosecute you if you continue in this way,
you're definitely wrong.

Second...you have said now that I used "racist terms." You have said
it now repeatedly.

After discussing the British class system, which has been documented in
more studies than I have time to cite, I said, in jest, simply that
you're not making sense "even for a Brit."

That's all. And for that you are attempting to defame me and my
reputation with false accusations.

I have been posting over the last 10 years under my name. Every post
I've written since 1994 has been archived. You can google all of them.

You find ONE SINGLE post from me where I say anything using racist
terms, just one...and I will not only resign permanently from this
group, I will resign from the internat itself Permanently.

If you cannot...then you do the same.

I'm telling you straight up, Paul: put up or shut up.

You have published damaging, defamatory, libelous comments about me now
at some length here, using inflammatory terms like racism because I
said that YOU were not making sense "even for a Brit." That is the
SOLE basis of your accusation...and it's a lie. It's a filthy lie, and
it's legally and factually untrue. And there have already been several
successful prosecutions against those who engage in a reckless
disregard for the truth when libeling someone on the internet.

So either you produce an actual racist comment...or apologize for
running my name through the gutter...or resign...or prepare to defend
yourself in court. And I hope you have the cash on hand to defend what
is a completely indefensible position, because you're going to have to.

I mean it. I have already retained an attorney in London.

So the choice is yours.

But this horseshit ends right now.

jms

copyright (c) 2005
synthetic worlds, ltd.
permission to reprint
denied to sfx magazine
    From: jmsatb5@aol.com
 Subject: Re: from jms: too damned much stuff
      To: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated  
    Date: 5/20/2005 10:44:29 PM  

Message 16 in thread 

View this message only
 



Matt Ion wrote:
> jmsatb5@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Second...you have said now that I used "racist terms." You have
said
> > it now repeatedly.
> >
> > After discussing the British class system, which has been
documented in
> > more studies than I have time to cite, I said, in jest, simply that
> > you're not making sense "even for a Brit."
>
> Hmmm, I hate to add any clarity to the mix here, but to be completely

> technical, "Brit" is not a racial term in any fashion anyway.
> Nationalist, maybe, but hardly racist. "Brits" are comprised of
people
> of every imaginable race, creed, religeon, philosophy, skin color,
and
> combinations thereof.
>

Precisely. There are British Citizens of every racial and ethnic
background just as there are Americans of every racial and ethnic
background. Which makes the idea even more ludicrous.

But I'm not going to keep going back and forth on this. This is the
last I intend to say on this subject, in this thread, on this system.
Anything else will have to find other venues.


jms

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